Baikal MP 153 3.5" Semi Auto Shotgun

Discussion in 'Shotguns, Shotgunning, Ballistics & "Shooter's Tal' started by tripleb, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    I recently acquired a Baikal MP 153 3.5" semi auto shotgun at a price I couldn't turn down.&nbsp; The MP 153 is gas operated and shoots all three standard 12ga. shell lengths, and weighs and feels much like the Rem. 11-87.&nbsp; Instead of having the action spring in the buttstock, like the 11-87,&nbsp; the action spring is over the magazine tube.&nbsp; <br> <br> The gas system has a heavy spring in the barrel ring that slips over the magazine tube.&nbsp; The spring tension can be adjusted for best functioning with a variety of shells, by controlling the amount of gas used to power the&nbsp;gun's ejection/reloading system, with&nbsp;the use of a spanner/choke tube wrench on a threaded adjusting ring.&nbsp; As set from the factory the gun should function with 2 3/4" lead to 3.5" steel shells.&nbsp; If the adjusting ring is screwed in (up to two turns) it will direct more gas into the system and will&nbsp;handle the lighter lead loads.&nbsp; If screwed out (up to two turns from the factory setting) it will bleed off more gas and&nbsp;handle heavy lead turkey loads.<br> <br> The instructions suggest firing 100 heavy lead shells to break the gun in.&nbsp; I found if I turned the adjusting ring in two turns, my 1 1/8 oz. lead Win. Superfield loads would function properly, even though the gun was not broken in.&nbsp; After firing 150 rounds of lead shot, and adjusting the ring back to the factory setting, the gun was broken in, and would cycle 1 oz. 1350 fps. lead loads properly.<br> <br> However, I found that for proper ejection of my 3.5" steel handloads, I had to set the ring for the lead turkey loads.&nbsp; This is likely due to my using approximately 40 grains of Steel powder in my relatively light charge weight steel shot loads, and creating more bolt speed from the ignition of them&nbsp;than the standard 1 9/16 oz. factory steel shot loads that use only about 31 grains of powder.&nbsp; This&nbsp;"lead shot turkey load" setting of the adjusting ring may be appropriate for the 1 3/8 oz. 3.5" fast steel factory loads as well.<br> <br> &nbsp;I also discovered that the Remington hulls I was using varied by about .060" of an inch.&nbsp; Most of them were approximately 3.440" long, while a few were a full 3.5" long.&nbsp; The gun ejected the slightly shorter fired hulls more vigorously, indicating that mouths of the longer hulls were dragging on the ejection port.&nbsp; This variation in hull length is common with Rem. hulls, but I will trim back all mine to the more commonly encountered 3.440" length which ejects more vigorously.<br> <br> The first pic. is of the shotgun itself.&nbsp; The fiber optic sight and sling swivels were added later.&nbsp; I fired several shots with a variety of handloads I use from three chokes, the factory full "steel", a Trulock Improved Modified (similar in performance to a Briley), and a .675" Terror.&nbsp; The barrel required the removal of about .010" to allow the Trulock and Terror to seat on the internal choke shelf.&nbsp; The aftermarket chokes were seating on the muzzle, rather than the internal choke shelf (as they should), and the metal was removed with a file to allow the chokes to seat on the shelf and not on the muzzle.&nbsp; Shotgun muzzles are rarely square with the bore.&nbsp; This is not a problem if the choke used is flush with the muzzle or has some clearance between the muzzle and choke shoulder.&nbsp; If it does not have some clearance, some needs to be provided.&nbsp; Careful filing of the muzzle, along with checking with a precision machinist's square and dial caliper is easily accomplished, but should be done either by a gunsmith or machinist.<br> <br> The first three pattern pics. are at 40 yards with a 3" 1 1/16 oz. handload of 2's.&nbsp; This load patterns very similarly to the Kent 1 1/8 oz. 3" fast steel load, so it is likely the same results would be obtained.&nbsp; I fired other loads using bigger shot and will obtain some Kent shells from Big Mexican for&nbsp;patterning as well.&nbsp; Bowhunter57 provided the Trulock IM choke, and many thanks to him for loaning it to me.&nbsp;&nbsp;While the factory full steel choke (a modified choke for lead)&nbsp;patterned lead shot well, but it was consistently beaten with&nbsp;the #2&nbsp;fast steel loads I have&nbsp;fired so far by the Trulock, and in particular, the Terror choke.&nbsp; The factory full steel fared better with the BBB steel shot.<br> <br> The first pic is of the shotgun, the second is of the pattern fired with the factory full steel, the third is of the pattern fired with the&nbsp;Terror and the fourth is of the pattern fired with the Trulock IM.<br> <br> I will post pics. of the 1 3/16 oz. load of 1's and 1 3/16 oz. of BBB's after I get them marked.<br>
     
  2. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    The pics are in order: Factory full choke with 1 3/16 oz. load of 1's;Terror choke; &nbsp;Trulock Improved Modified.<br> <br> These loads are running faster by about 60 fps., nearly 1650 fps., than they do normally in cold weather.&nbsp; The large charge of powder, coupled with warm temps drives pressures, and velocities upward.&nbsp; Steel powder is usually not adversely affected by cold temps, but pressures and velocities rise when the temps are in the 60+ range.&nbsp; Normally, these 1 3/16 oz. loads, both 1's and BBB's will pattern better at normal waterfowling temps.<br>
     

  3. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P>The following three pics are of a 1 3/16 oz. BBB load.&nbsp; The sequence of pictures is: Factory full steel, Terror choke and Trulock Improved Modified.</P>
     
  4. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    Here's what making a load adjustment can do to improve performance.&nbsp; The velocity was dropped down to 1530 fps. and shot charge increased to 1 5/16 oz. of 1's.&nbsp; I added 14 pellets to the load, but 24 pellets were picked up in the 30" circle.<br> <br> This helps show what changes in pattern performance can occur by what appears to be relatively small changes in components.&nbsp; This pattern was fired with the .675" Terror choke at 40 yards.&nbsp; The same thing can happen if a change is made in factory shells used.&nbsp; A marginal combination at 40 yards,&nbsp;can be turned into a load that would work on ducks to 50 yards, due to the center density this combination throws.&nbsp; Since this is a new "wildcat" load, as I have not shot it in cold weather, I will have to put a couple in the fridge and a couple in the freezer to see what happens to both the velocity of the load and patterns due to the colder temps.&nbsp; Fast steel patterns often change for the better or worse with significant changes in temperatures.<br>
     
  5. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    I shot a couple of shots after the shells had been in the refrigerator for 5 hours.&nbsp; One had been in the freezer, the other in the fridge.&nbsp; The velocity of the load in the refrigerator was 1479 fps.&nbsp; The velocity of the load which had been in the freezer was 1520 fps.&nbsp; This increase in velocity is common with Steel powder when temps. get below freezing.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br> <br> The pic. shows the difference the temperatures have on the wad gas seal skirts.&nbsp; The wad on the left was shot after being in the fridge.&nbsp; The wad on the right was shot after being in the freezer.&nbsp; Notice the difference in the wad skirts.&nbsp; The wad on the&nbsp;left (refrigerator wad)&nbsp;shows tears at the point it passed the two gas ports in the barrel.&nbsp; The skirt of the wad on the right (freezer wad)&nbsp;shows some stretching, but no tearing at the same point.&nbsp; Wad skirt tears can cause the wads to tip on exiting the muzzle and give bad patterns.<br>
     
  6. ignantmike

    ignantmike Member

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    <P>great info...triple b.....i alway's look forward to your comment's on here and the refuge.......</P>
     
  7. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P>Thank's.&nbsp; I'm hoping to bum some Kent shells off Big Mexican this weekend to finish the pattern testing of the Baikal with factory, Trulock and Terror chokes.&nbsp; But he's dragging plastic through the murky waters of Grand Lake St. Marys on Saturday and may have to go to a pre-funeral viewing on Sunday, so I may not get them until the following weekend for the patterning.</P>
     
  8. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">I haven't been able to get the shells from Big Mexican yet, but the following posts contain some pics. of the shotgun and it's component parts.&nbsp; I finally cleaned it.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The first two pics. are closeups of the buttstock and the foreend.&nbsp; The wood appears to be a type of walnut, at least that what it smelled like when I drilled the hole for the rear sling swivel stud. The checkering has a few runovers around the border, but I have done worse checkering jobs myself. The only point where the wood to metal fit could be better is at the top of the wrist where it joins the action.&nbsp; It is a little "proud", meaning a little too much wood sticks up past the metal.</P>
     
  9. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P>This pic. is of the major component parts of the action (except for the trigger group).&nbsp; It's a very simple system, easy to disassemble, clean&nbsp;and reassemble, even easier than my old 11-87. Because the action spring is over the magazine tube, it is easy to clean and will not rust up from a dunking&nbsp;like one can which is located in the buttstock.</P>
     
  10. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The following three pics. are of the gas regulating system in the barrel ring,which fits over the magazine tube.&nbsp; </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The&nbsp;second pic. is of the ring and the adjusting nut at the top of the ring.&nbsp; There is a notch on the side of the ring with a line marked on it.&nbsp; As received from the factory, the top of the&nbsp;adjusting nut&nbsp;is set at the line.&nbsp; If the adjusting nut is turned down two turns, it will function with light lead loads.&nbsp; If the adjusting nut is turned out two turns, it will function with lead turkey loads.&nbsp; The purpose of the gas adjustment is to provide for sufficient gas to cause the shotgun to function reliably with very light loads, but also, to function with very heavy loads, without causing excessive bolt velocity which will&nbsp;unnecessarily stress the parts.&nbsp; As set from the factory, it will function with 1 1/8 oz. 3 dram lead loads up to 3.5" steel loads.&nbsp; After a breakin, mine will function with 1 oz. 1360 fps. lead loads reliably.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The&nbsp;third&nbsp; pic. is of the spanner wrench in place to adjust the adjusting nut.&nbsp; The spanner also serves as a choke tube wrench.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The&nbsp;first pic. is of the inside of the barrel ring showing the large square form spring which functions, along with a seal, to control the amount of gas used to cycle the gun.&nbsp; This type of gas regulating system has been around for awhile, but is simple to use.&nbsp; However, while the range of shells which will work at any setting is wide, it is not idiot proof, as it requires you to remember the difference between light lead loads and heavy hunting loads and make any adjustments necessary before you go hunting, if you have moved it from the factory setting.</P>
     
  11. FOWLTALK

    FOWLTALK New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">I stopped into my local gun shop this evening, he has a couple Baikal o/u 's.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">He looked the MP-153 up &amp; said i could buy it for around $340 new.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">He made a call to his distributing rep to see if he can get one in, i'll know</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">more tomorrow. Is that gun easy to come by ?</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">The guts of the gun in your pics look similar to a Browning A-5......that can't</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">be a bad thing by no means. Like you mentioned, she's a little rough around</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">the edges, but for that kind of money in a 3 1/2" auto that can cycle the light loads, its got my interest. Yes, it is walnut too.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">This is a new gun for the lineup, correct ? i was looking in a new Remington</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">brochure, &amp; it did not list the gun, only singles &amp; o/u 's made by Spartan,</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">which is Baikal.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">i'm between this gun &amp; an 870 wingmaster, 12-3" light contour, high gloss</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">walnut that i can buy for $379 out the door. The gun has had only 6 rounds</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">run through &amp; was purchased new &amp; traded back into this same dealer.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">i'm a sucker for the pretty looking guns, although i have'nt had a 3 1/2 " gun</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">either....not that i need one.....i figure i'm giving the birds&nbsp; 1/2 a chance</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">without one, right !!<IMG src="http://www.websitetoolbox.com/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" align=absMiddle border=0></P>
     
  12. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">Bowhunter57, advised me that Remington had picked it up.&nbsp; The Baikal MP 153 has been on the market for several years, but it was imported by European American Armoury (EAA). Unlike the other 3.5" semi autos, very&nbsp;few negative&nbsp;comments have been made&nbsp;about it in the 2 years I have been on waterfowling sites.&nbsp; It was to be renumbered 353 by Remington, if I remember correctly what he told me.&nbsp; I didn't see it on the Rem.&nbsp;Spartan list of Baikals to be sold, either.&nbsp; </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">That price is a good one, they are generally available, but many of the bigger dealers don't stock them as their sales will cut into the greater profits the dealers&nbsp;make from selling SX2's, Browning Golds, Beretta Xtremas, Benelli SBE's of the old and newer varieties.&nbsp;If you shoot longer ranges, you will need to get an&nbsp;extended aftermarket choke. I prefer the Terror, but it is expensive at about $80.&nbsp; The Trulock&nbsp;improved modified is supposed to be good too, but probably&nbsp;more suited to shots under 40 yards.&nbsp; I've got one to try out once I get some factory loads to pattern.&nbsp; Generally, the faster the steel shot load, the more likely you will need a good aftermarket choke.&nbsp; Under 1450 fps., most factory chokes will work fine.&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">If you get one, just remember to properly break it in by shooting at least 100 rounds of the heavier lead loads.&nbsp; The 1 1/4 oz., 3 3/4 dram equivalent loads should work if you don't handload.&nbsp; When you clean it, oil the action rails with some FP10.&nbsp; It's probably one of the best gun lubricants out.</P>
     
  13. FOWLTALK

    FOWLTALK New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">i was told by a reliable source that Remington is NOT going to carry the</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">MP-153 in its Spartan lineup. From my understanding, Remington is not</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">going to import this particular gun at all !!! Why ? i dunno, but who will</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">continue to import this gun if Remington won't . I'd hate to see a part</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">breakage issue if this info is correct.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">i did see a half dozen or more of the MP-153&nbsp;on gunbroker.com today,</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">priced anywhere from $299 to $329 in various stock options. That is dirt</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">cheap. Even a used one, the guy had $300 on it. No bids on the guns, or</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">very little that i noticed.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">i'm still digging up more info....</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P>
     
  14. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P style="MARGIN: 0px">I checked with Bowhunter57 yesterday about his source of info on Remington picking it up.&nbsp; He said he read the announcement on the Remington website about 3 months ago in their "what's new" section.&nbsp; Apparently, Remington was going to call the MP 153, the MP453 and the Baikal 3.5" pumpgun, now the MP 133, was to be the MP 433. He said that he has not seen anything on either the Remington or the Spartan websites about either the semi auto or the pumpgun since.&nbsp; </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">EAA supposedly will continue to provide service.&nbsp; EAA (European American Armoury, Inc.) has been the importer and service provider&nbsp;for Baikals for several years.&nbsp; From what I have read, EAA is to&nbsp;continue to provide service for those who buy the Baikal single and double shotguns from the Remington Spartan line.&nbsp; From web comments by users, very few people have had problems with the MP 153, and those which did (3, that I can recall reading) got quick and satisfactory service.&nbsp; One guy had a magazine spring which fatigued.&nbsp; EAA sent him two new ones.&nbsp; Another guy had a gun where the bluing on the barrel was getting thin.&nbsp; The barrel was replaced.&nbsp; The specifics of the third problem, I can't recall, but I believe it was also quickly rectified.&nbsp; OHIO WILDFOWLER reported he fired his for 2000 rounds without cleaning it without a malfunction and has seen no problems from the 4 he has sold to friends who hunt with him.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">Perhaps the deal fell through.&nbsp; Remington had a similar problem a couple of years ago when they announced they would be selling .22 Mag. ammo with a Hornady&nbsp;33 grain VMax bullet.&nbsp; After two years, it was still not on the market.&nbsp; Now I see a similar bullet is being sold by Remington.&nbsp; In any case, EAA has been in business for years, so getting necessary service should be at least as easy as getting it from Remington, considering the financial problems&nbsp;Remington has&nbsp;had over the years.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">If you want some references concerning the MP 153,&nbsp;post an inquiry on&nbsp;WF.com or on the shooting/reloading forum on The Duckhunters Refuge.&nbsp; You have to take into consideration that for any decent shotgun there will be many&nbsp;more satisfied users than dissatisfied ones.&nbsp; So, while favorable reports are nice to receive, the more important ones are the unfavorable ones and what service the user received to correct the problems.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">Guns that I have read receive frequent unfavorable reports are the new 870 and 11-87 Super Mags, Charles Daly shotguns, Benelli SBE (for length of time it takes to get service from the factory), Beretta Xtrema's (for barrel problems with steel shot not shooting to point of aim which Beretta refused to acknowlege or correct, stating shooting left 7 inches or more at 40 yards with steel shot was within factory specifications), and Mossbergs of all kinds, although their factory repair service is said to be excellent.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P>
     
  15. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    I acquired some factory shells today from Big Mexican and fired some of them through the factory full(for steel), which is actually a modified for lead, the Trulock improved modified and the .675" Terror chokes. I shot a 3" Winchester Supreme BB load, but as the shells were not marked as to shot charge weight, I don't know if they were 1 1/8 oz. or 1 1/4 oz., 3.5" Kent 1 3/8 oz. 2's, 1's and BB's. The Terror choke blew the others away in terms of performance at 40 yards. I will have to mark the papers, take some pics. and post them tomorrow for review.
     
  16. ignantmike

    ignantmike Member

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    <P>bravo trible b........great job on taking pic's of the gas system......it really takes the guess work out of wondering what it look's like before you buy it.....</P>
     
  17. BIGMEXICAN

    BIGMEXICAN New Member

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    <P>Tripleb the 3"winchester shells were 1 1/4 oz</P>
     
  18. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P>Thanks, Big Mex!&nbsp; Next time the tacos are on me.<IMG src="http://www.websitetoolbox.com/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" align=absMiddle border=0></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">I've got the papers shot, holes marked and counted, but couldn't take any pics. tonight because the wife had the camera with her and didn't get home until 9:30 PM.&nbsp; Will do it tomorrow.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">&nbsp;</P>
     
  19. BIGMEXICAN

    BIGMEXICAN New Member

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    <P>Tripleb taco's sound good but a 16 oz steak dinner would be better you know I don't want to be confused with the malnourished Irishman again.</P>
     
  20. tripleb

    tripleb New Member

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    <P>Will do.&nbsp; I probably owe you&nbsp;at least&nbsp;that.<IMG src="http://www.websitetoolbox.com/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" align=absMiddle border=0></P>