2005/06 HUNTERS TRIAL SCHEDULE

Runningdog · Sep 5, 2005

SEPT. 11 Crooked Creek Conservations-Regular plus water          18 South Cuyahoga          25 Columbia Game Club   Oct.   02 Crooked Creek Conservations- Regular plus water          09 Columbia Game Club          16 Cuyahoga **** Hunters          23 Wayne **** Hunters          30 Crooked Creek Conservations- Regular plus water          30 South Cuyahoga   Nov.   06 Cuyahoga **** Hunters          13 Columbia Game Club          20 Crooked Creek Conservation-regular plus water          29 Huron Twp. Conservation          27 DEER SEASON-NO TRIAL   Dec.   04 Cuyahoga **** Hunters          11 Crooked Creek Conservations- regular plus water          18 South Cuyahoga          25 CHRISTMAS-NO TRIAL   Jan.    01 NEW YEARS DAY-NO TRIAL           07 SATURDAY TRIAL- Wayne **** hunters          15 South Cuyahoga          22 Wayne **** Hunters          29 Huron Twp. Conservation   Feb.   05 Cuyahoga **** Hunters          12 Colmbia Game Club          19 South Cuyahoga          26 Pine Crest Shooting Preserve   Mar.   05 Cuyahoga **** Hunters          12 Columbia Game Club          19 Wayne **** Hunters          26 South Cuyahoga   Apr.    08 Invetational Winners Trial- Crooked Creek Conservation   Contacts  for trials, Columbia- 330-723-1679  Ginny Crooked Creek-440-858-2855 Cindy Cuyahoga ****-440-842-4484 Barb Huron Twp.-419-626-2884 Sherri South Cuyahoga-216-663-6427 Mike Wayne ****-440-934-4493 Dennis Pine Crest-440-236-9131 Missy

CMDUX · Sep 6, 2005

Thanks for posting these dates for everyone Running Dog!!!!  It is important to know that these are flush (or point, if that's fun for you <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">) to SHOOT AND KILL and then retrieve trials.  No "recently deceased" birds chucked out of launchers and shot at with popper loads at these events.  If you bring a significant other who has no experience with these sort of events, make sure they know what they will see.  All that aside, they are family events with great people, awesome dogs, usually pretty good food, and always plenty of stories to be shared.

oldschoolspringer · Oct 9, 2005

To bad they cant get real unbiased judges.

MaktheQwk · Oct 9, 2005

Oldschool springer, your comment leads me to believe you ran your dog today, and you were obvously dissapointed by the results. As trial chairman for our club, it's getting harder and harder to procur judges for our events because of comments such as yours. Judges are getting tired of getting beat up for their placements. Unless it was a dead nuts first place performance, do you realize how very little seperates one run from the next? Judges look for little things to seperate dogs when they are all bunched up for a plaacement. Did you have to overhandle your dog vs. the guy who tooted his whistle once to get a response? Did  your dog cast the right way when you sent him off? Did he drop a bird on a retrieve to reposition on his way back to the handler? Was it a straight line retrieve to the handler? When I first started dabbling with dogs, and eventually field trials, I had the chance to be advised by some very knowledgable old timers. And some of the best advice I ever recieved from them was simply this,"You need to be your own best judge" If you left the field with your dog, and you were pleased with his/her performance, any thing after that i.e ribbon, trophy etc. is just gravy. If your dog performed according to the way you handled him, and YOU were happy, does it really matter what somebody else thinks about your dogs' performance? I've taken placements with my dog when I said to myself,"You've got to be kidding!" just as many times as I thought I had a sniff of the pie, only to be shut out! You have got to be your own best judge! Sure, there are always going to be disappointments, but if your dog is excelling in the field,finding birds,making retrieves, working close, handling efficiently, making you proud, do you need someone else to tell you that you own and handle a might fine bird dog? Please don't let one dissapointment stop you from attending our trial circuit! Keep up the hard work! I'm sure it will not go unnoticed for you and your four-legged friend! Stop out and visit us at SCSA on 10-30 for our next event. It's on hen pheasants. BTW, I assume you are running a spaniel? One last thought, if you have in fact visisted one of the clubs while competing your dog, have you watched an entire trial and tried to differentiate between the dogs and their indivual performances? Sometimes it's easy,like when cream rises to the top. Othertimes, when dogs aren't showing you anything,you look for the sublteties to start seperating dogs. My main message, please don't be discouraged! After all, it's supposed to be for fun!!!

oldschoolspringer · Oct 10, 2005

I compete knowing judging is substanderd. Until this issue is corrected your gonna have problems. This state is loaded with people who could be qualified to judge. Many have judged at higher levels.

Runningdog · Oct 10, 2005

Well put Mak. I have gallaried days where I thought to myself today how is the judge going to seperate these dogs for placement they all preformed  great! So many dogs so few placements.

oldschoolspringer · Dec 19, 2005

Didnt really care for flushing Judge at all today,Some of the comments he made to me implied he did not know what the hell he was doing.

Duxbak · Dec 19, 2005

That is why I stopped going. To much politics. Once had a judge call me at home after the event. Turns out so many people gave him crap about my dog not placing he called to apologize.  I had left early and figured there was some good runs. After that, and seeing the same names all the time I was done.  Saw dogs that didn't impress at all win. But saw who owned them and that was all I needed to know. This is just my opinion and I am intitled to it. I still run at one club for fun. And even though my dog qualifies for the Winners Trial I won't attend.    

MaktheQwk · Dec 19, 2005

Give it a rest, oldtime springer! If you are who I think you are, you've made your own share of "admirerers" over the years with some of your  quirky decisions, to the point most guys I know snicker if they know your judging an event.  Me thinks you live on or near Buffam Rd., and had to skate early yesterday due to work. And besides, a one-eyed retard could have figured out your all-age spaniel crashed and burned right out of the box!!!. Remember TZ, this is supposed to be for fun, and for the dogs!!! Bad mouthing volunteers at ours, or any other clubs event, is why we wind up losing good people year after year. They get sick of listening to the cynicism and derision from "experts" such a yourself. These people spend all day Sat. and Sun. setting fields,picking up birds,cleaning toilets,sweeping floors, and doing all the other behind the scenes glamorous jobs that it takes to insure all of our handlers have an enjoyable experience. And every once in a while, someone is offended because their dog doesn't get put up. And right away its"politics". But, hey, these events have been going on for many,many years, and will continue to go on DESPITE the efforts of a handful of naysayers and doomsdayers who are hell bent on re-inventing the wheel!!!.  Have a superfantastic day!!!!

oldschoolspringer · Dec 20, 2005

That was a defensive response, No Im definetly not who you think I am. Im not critisizing a placement , Several comments where made to me by the judge that left me question if he new what he was doing. I do think there needs to be some reform on how judges are chosen and what standerds to judge by. Ive enjoyed this years hunters trial season. I do have a beef with Judging and I compete knowing this. I would like to see some reform.   Let me ask you this, Do Judges meet at least once a year and go over judging standerds to insure some consistancy ? Or do judges have total free will to interprit a typed set of standerdes.

Trainer · Dec 20, 2005

Judges should be paid to make it worth doing, and more qualified people would be interested in the position.  Some days its the dog, some days it is the poor judgeing and other days, you just screw up the dog and judge with poor handling.  If you want to play the games, you have to except the responsability of presenting a good attitude and carry on.  Jim

oldschoolspringer · Dec 23, 2005

Let me ask you this, Do Judges meet at least once a year and go over judging standerds to insure some consistancy ? Or do judges have total free will to interprit a typed set of standerdes.

Duxbak · Dec 23, 2005

I judged a trial. I did flushing dogs. I think the biggest problem is judging for a specific breed. Labs work different than a spaniel. Spaniel different from a Chessie and so on. I noticed what ever kind of dog the judge owned played into the judges decision. If he has spaniels, they seemed to place high. If labs the same.    I tried to judge based on the breed and how it worked against its breed standard. I placed a Sussex Spaniel very high for its work, even though it was very slow and methodical. That is how the breed was made to work. I had no training, just 40 years of being around dogs. It was basically what pleased the eye that day.

MaktheQwk · Dec 24, 2005

Duxbax, as the official in the field that day,you were well within your right to put up that Sussex if it indeed caught your eye. We ask judges to call them like they see them, and the overwhelming majority of the time they get it right. If in fact you judged you probably noticed how closely you had dogs scored. Unfortunatly, when you are only placing 3 dogs in a class, some good dogs who scored close will be shut out of a placement that day. Doesn't mean that your dog was BAD, just that maybe the judge saw something that caught his eye that day, such as the Sussex did yours. When I run my lab, there is only one judge that matters when I exit the field with him, and that is ME!! I know when he got it right, and I know when he got it wrong!! Now if a judge happens to concur, and place him, it's all gravy. I've taken placements when I shook my head, and have been shut out when I felt we nailed it. Do I give it up, bad rap clubs or individuals, boycott the events??? No, I have to much fun with the sport, and can honestly say some of the finest people I know I met through field trialing. In fact, our son's godmother is the wife of a very good friend of mine I met almost 20 years ago at Cuyahoga Coonhunters for the 1st time. I've wound up hunting Iowa and the Dakotas with guys I train with at our club. You will see the most eclectic group of people at these events on any given Sunday, and I mean from doctors to ditchdiggers, all standing side by side in support of the dogs and the sport. And like in every other facet of life, wether dog trials,PTA, the Knights of Columbus, the VFW, etc. no matter how hard you bend over backwards to make something work, you'll have your malcontents ready to condemn and second guess every decision made. I won't mention any names, but our sport has its share of "resident experts" who know everything, yet for all their knowledge, seem to contribute very little to promote the sport. In fact, there's at least one in every club. As far as your observation about the difference in the breeds, I'll not argue that point with you. A close working spaniel properly casting back and forth hunts differently than the lab that covers ground much faster. I have advocated, but have been rejected by majority concensus, running and competing spaniels against spaniels and retrievers against retreivers at the Winners Trial. Maybe someday. As far as judging guidelines, this is meant more for the observer who may be reading this. Imagine yourself accompanying someone who is out on a days hunt with his or her dog. A more desireable dog might be one that requires little or no commands, stays in range, and puts birds in the gamebag. A less desireable dog might not obey, runs off and hunts on its own. loses(won't retrieve) or drops birds. Remember this is a hunters trial. Most hunters make one pass through an area and would't consider recovering the same area. A bird missed on the first pass through should place considerably less than one found on a second or third pass. Now with specifics: DESIRE TO HUNT-the dog must seek gamne with boldness,enthusiasm and desire. It must look like it is trying to find birds. HUNTS THE FIELD CORRECTLY- the dog should cover the field in a thorough and efficient manner, depending on conditions(wind,weather, scenting conditions,etc). It should hunt at a reasonable distance from the gunner, with regard for the breed.LOCATES BIRDS CORRECTLY- Pointer- the dog should locate, lock on point, and show intensity while on point. It should remain on point and not creep as the handler flushes the bird. Flusher the dog should boldly locate and flush the bird. STEADY TO WING AND SHOT(ALL-AGE CLASS ONLY) Pointer the dog should not move forward as the bird flushes. The dog may pivot to mark the bird. It should remain this way during shooting and as the bird falls. It will then be released by the command of the handler. Flusher-After a bold flush, the dog should not move forward. and must stop motion. The dog may pivot to mark the bird. It should remain this way during the shooting, and as the bird falls. It will then be released by command of the handler.RETREIVE(not judged for puppy pointers) The dog must mark the fallen bird well. It should perservere on wounded birds, retrieve and delever promptly to hand. The handler should not assist the dog by walking towards or away form the dog. The dog should not chew the bird, and should release the bird into the handlers hand.HANDLER CONTROL-the dog must obey commands from the handler. If commands are used to direct the dog, then the dog should respond with minimul repetition of the commands. As you can tell, not much rocket science in these trials. In fact, so very cut and dry as to be able that the casual observer could probably come close to a judges placements on any given trial Sunday if they watch the entire program. Cream still tends to rise to the top.

oldschoolspringer · Mar 6, 2006

Does anubody know exactly who the judges are for the winners trials?

MaktheQwk · Mar 19, 2006

As had been mutually agreed upon by the participating clubs, invitations for the All-Breed Invitational Winners Trial were to include the names of all judges for the event. Of course, Crooked Creek Conservation Club opted to NOT DISCLOSE the names of the judging officials when trial and banquet information was sent out this past week. All I know/heard was that they are all from out of the local trial circuit. I'd bet a weeks paycheck that their all spaniels guys, though!!!!

oldschoolspringer · Mar 26, 2006

If there AKC Spaniel guys, I sure hope they dont expect the Spaniels running to be at that level.

fishnhunt · Jul 28, 2006

I WANT TO RUN MY LAB IN SOME DOG TRAILS THIS FALL. HOW DO I GET STARTED. ANYONE KNOW THE SHEDULE FOR THIS YEAR YET. INFO WILL GREATLY BE APRECIATED.  KEN

Ylwlabs · Jul 28, 2006

Ken here is the HRC Test for this Fall   <A href="http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/PREMIUMS/PREMIUM%20INDEX.htm" target=_blank>http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/PREMIUMS/PREMIUM%20INDEX.htm</A>   We have plenty of openings in Started and Seasoned at the Ohio River HRC test in Sept. Bill

duckhunterjoe · Jul 28, 2006

X2 What DC Said.   Mike

2005/06 HUNTERS TRIAL SCHEDULE

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